I was teaching one of the final classes for the 2010 Opening the Moneyflow participants, and I made an offhand comment, “You know, because it’s really hard to make a living just from workshops.”
Someone in the class immediately jumped in, “Whoa… Whoa… Did you really just say that it’s notoriously hard to make a living from live workshops? Because that’s what I’m planning my business strategy around.”
My stomach sunk. This late in the course someone hadn’t gotten what I had been teaching? I asked a few questions, and realized that what she was planning was an exception. Whew!
You and I have to talk about this, because so many people love teaching groups in person. I know I do, and maybe you do, too. So let me dig into what’s happening, why it doesn’t work, and how to include live seminars in your business so they do work. Then I’ll explain the exception our Opening the Moneyflow participant was taking advantage of.
Too Much Good Lovin’…
All this good lovin’ for live events leads to a common false step of trying to base your business on teaching live workshops with very little else generating revenue.
It’s so painful, because marketing seems to work backwards in these situations.
1. You create an incredible workshop.
2. You announce it. People in your circles get excited, and you (hopefully) get a decent number of sign-ups.
3. You do okay, everyone has a great time.
4. You announce the second workshop next month. Fewer people show up.
5. You announce the third workshop the third month. Hardly anyone responds.
6. You despair.
The workshop rocked people’s world. Your fans are excited about it. Yet instead of more excitement and participation, they both drop off to a dribble. What’s happening?
…And Not Enough Commitment
When thinking about what you are offering to potential clients, it’s really important to consider what kind of commitment someone will need to make. Different offers require different levels of commitment.
Here’s a list of typical offers people in service businesses make, in order of the level of commitment needed from the client, from lowest to highest.
Please hold this list as general tendencies and not as an absolute for any individual. Some people, because of their relationship to technology or orientation toward relationships, may re-order this list somewhat.
Group A: Lowest commitment. Requires no interaction with anyone else, no need to show up on someone else’s schedule, and no money goes anywhere.
1. Free content on a website, or even free printed handouts, or any other available form.
2. Subscription to receive free content regularly by email.
3. Subscription to receive free content by postal mail (yes, some people still do this).
Group B: Low commitment. Requires no interaction with others and no need to show up on someone else’s schedule.
4. Purchase a book at typical book prices.
5. Purchase an information product, at higher than typical book prices.
Group C: Medium commitment. Requires showing up at a particular time, and potentially interacting with someone.
6. Free teleclass. Note that if they don’t show up for the free call but opt to receive the recording afterwards, as many do, this actually ends up in Group A.
7. Free talk as an in-person event.
Group D: High commitment. Requires interaction with someone, showing up at a particular time and place, and may or may not involve payment.
8. Paid teleclass.
9. Short paid multi-session course lasting a few weeks, virtual or live.
10. Free individual session.
11. Paid individual session. Slightly higher commitment level than the free session, but not a huge jump.
Group E: Highest commitment. Requires deeper interaction with someone, showing up at a particular time and place, and involves payment.
12. Paid individual multi-session package.
13. Paid in-person workshop or retreat. This is a high level of commitment in some ways equal to number 11, but it becomes trickier because you need a number of people with the same level of commitment, who all are interested in the same topic, who are all free on the same day at the same time.
You Can Easily Live in Group E
In fact, if you’re starting out in your business, I recommend people start by filling their business almost entirely from Group E, with the multi-session individual package.
Although it’s the highest level of commitment, it’s much easier to get ten people to each make an individual commitment to a multi-session package than to try to find ten people who all have the same needs, the same level of commitment, and can all show up on the same day in the same place.
We’ve taught clients with relatively small email lists or communities how to craft a multi-session individual package and market themselves, enrolling interested people into saying, “Yes.” It works. They start getting clients and making money.
However, those same plucky clients, whose circle of reach comprises less than a few hundred people, have a devil of a time finding even six or ten people to show up consistently for a live event.
It’s Not Just Commitment, It’s the Frequency
And “frequency” is just another way of saying “commitment.” Let’s say in your business, you can make a living from 8-15 individual clients at a time each of whom commit to three or four months of support.
In three or four months, some of those people continue for another three months. Meanwhile, you just need to find another 6-10 people to do the same thing. In a year, maybe you need to find 40 people total. That is doable, even if you need to learn a bit about marketing and enrollment.
However, if you’re trying to make a living with live seminars, the needed numbers become very different. Ten people showing up each month means 120 people minimum. And you have to spend a LOT of time marketing and selling every month to the people in your circles.
For these seminars, you’ll be making a big push every month. As you turn up the volume on your marketing, people listen less. A big push, then, becomes normal to them and they don’t pay as close attention.
Then each live event loses its specialness. Instead of thinking, “OMG, I’ve got to get there,” your potential client thinks, “Oh, yeah, that workshop I keep meaning to go to. Ah well, she’s always offering them. I won’t rearrange my tea date with my friend, I’ll just get to the next one.”
These Are All Numbers; Where’s the Heart?
The heart comes in beginning to realize that although you may enjoy teaching live events tremendously, the commitment you are really asking of your circle of fans may be too high. You see how that can wear on them, and you begin to mix up your offers, picking from the different commitment groups I’ve listed above, and giving people choices.
Then you make your live events truly special by limiting their frequency and giving each event the spaciousness it deserves.
The Exception?
Oh yeah, my client above? When I said, “live event,” we both realized that she, in fact, had taken my advice over the previous months to heart. Her “live event” was actually a multi-session in-person group, number 9 from Group D, but extended in length.
It’s a very different situation, because each person in the group committed to the full length of the program. She doesn’t have to keep selling new people over and over again.
Your Next Step?
First, take some time to grieve that you’re probably not going to get to do live seminars as often as you’d like to and get paid for them.
Second, let in the relief that you don’t have to push so hard to make those live seminars work.
Third, schedule two live events in the next twelve months, space them well apart, and give yourself the spaciousness to market them well and make them truly special.
Fourth, go get clients! Yes, there’s a lot to this last step. But hey, that’s why we’ve got all of those hundreds of other articles on the blog. If you don’t know how, time to learn and make it easy on yourself.
What have you found to be true about live events? How often do you do them? What kinds of results do you get?
41 Responses
This really makes a great deal of sense. And I think a lot of the business that in the past went to the “1 day seminar” business that moved from town to town has now gone online and to info products.
The other thing that comes to mind is that it’s extremely important that the details around the (occasional) live events are done super well. Not just the teaching, but the logistics, the catering, the room and so forth. Much of my day job is doing the technical production for larger events – and so often I’ve seen logistics take an event with great content and either make it amazing and unforgettable (because there’s nothing to get in the way) or make it feel just ok because, while the content was good, everything else was a pain in the neck.
To many times, I’ve seen organizers forget how important it is to create the right environment for the communication and experience they are creating.
On the other hand, when it’s done really well, it creates a sacred space where magic can happen.
Hi Mark,
It’s a good thing I didn’t know this BEFORE I started my live workshop business (-:
But, I do know what you mean. And even though at this point in my business I can pretty consistently fill my very regular workshops and retreats it took a long time for me to get to the place where I can be relatively relaxed and confident that my events WILL fill.
For many years the whole issue of enrollment was a very stressful experience, with me often not knowing until the last minute if I was going to make or lose money.
And I must say that even though I don’t have products or offer things like teleclasses having a developed presence on the internet is one of the things that I think has had a tremendous impact on my current levels of success.
Thanks for another great post!!
Timely. This is exactly where I’m standing, looking forward and asking myself when I should schedule the two live events I’ve been dreaming about. Much wisdom here – this post is a keeper, the kind I need to print out and review several times. Thanks, as always for wisdom and heart.
Right on Mark! Thanks for so clearly stating the levels of commitment and keeping the heart in it.
As I was developing the workshop aspect of my coaching business I discovered it really helped to also have a repeat-purchase product line to smooth out my cash flow and keep me out of the “pushy marketing” energy.
Thanks for the additional ideas on how to make the process of engagement even easier for my fan base. Already printed this one out and reviewing it with my business partner. 🙂
Maybe I’m missing something here, Mark. My business model is giving workshops. I’m not focused on ongoing support for clients, but rather on a one-time deeply powerful experience, that enables participants to move on from there in a changed way–not an adrenaline high, but rather true change.
I see the marketing difficulties–and this is something that markets well to businesses, as professional training and development–but is there something I’m missing beyond that?
Thanks.
Doug
I’m really curious- I’ve been hearing on email and in the comments now from both Doug and Chris- thank you both- that some people are having a fine time making it from mostly or only workshops- and also hearing from folks who have struggled with what I’ve described above.
What’s your model? How does it work for you? Let’s hear more. And if you do have a workshop-only model, if you’re willing to share some more of it, please do.
Or feel free to email me… I feel a follow-up post coming on. 🙂
The problem of exhausting the specialness of your live workshops is an issue if your community is too stable or local. I’m touring which creates automatic specialness because I’m in the area only for a short time.
It does, Jupiter, especially if you have a set audience. Because, of course, if you don’t have connections in an area, that can make it harder to draw an audience. But it sounds like you do.
Mark,
The above is an eye-opener for me. And I have a question for clarification. How is number 9 (Short paid multi-session course lasting a few weeks, virtual or live) less of a commitment than 13 (Paid in-person workshop or retreat)? I would say that 9, when done live, involves more commitment and organization on the client’s side (for example, travelling for four sessions in four consecutive weeks) than just one workshop.
Also I am assuming that you mean 9 to be with a group – which creates the same organizational overhead as in 13, multiplied by the number of sessions.
Am I misreading something?
Hi Malik- it’s a good point and a good question. There is a definite similarity in the level of commitment needed from the participant end. And, I think that many people like the idea of being in an ongoing group- to actually get help- and it’s a little emotionally safer than just a one-time event- especially if it’s a small group.
However, you do make good points, and they could be on a similar level.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for laying this out – I found this scenario to be true for my own workshops I held about a year or two ago; the first workshop was full, the second was about half full, and the rest were dwindling numbers, if any sign-ups at all. I spent a lot of time and effort advertising, trying to come up with new ideas for workshop themes, and eventually stopped them all together due to a lack of interest- and exhaustion, on my part!
Recently I’ve found myself drawn to hosting workshops again, and have joined forces with another practitioner (holistic therapist) to try and expand my audience. One challenge I’ve run into however, is the therapist does not have as large an audience as I thought! We got a few calls, but no sign-ups. I admit we only advertised for 2-3 weeks before the 2-hr event…
At this point I’m thinking I need to either join up with someone different who has a more established following, or beef up the advertising with the current person.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thanks! I really enjoyed reading your article-
Johnna
Great question, Johnna- I think you need to make sure the topic is juicy, and that there are as few surprises as possible- people know what they are walking into.
Our local naturopathic college has a clinic- and a few years ago the clinic held a two-hour event for women on the topic of Hot Flashes. The room was packed. 🙂 If you have a hot, juicy topic that people really need help with, I bet you get folks showing up for it.
I agree that the topic of interest must be, well, topical. Something people need that is not out there. Hot Flashes is definitely not talked about, AND one could have broadened that topic a little, because the issue of menopause is not discussed in any helpful, day to day useful way. OR, offered a three part series.
However, I can’t imagine trying to get people all on your own even for a hot topic. I think it’s best to try to speak at a venue that has its own list of folks who like to come out for events – I’d like to know if this was the case with the Naturopathic college. Probably, since it is a college, and their list is students; ie, people who are learning.
It is possible you could have the same success with speaking at a women’s business organization who seeks out monthly lecturers from the community. Perhaps a doctor’s office has finally figured out that offering classes would be a smart thing to do, and would love to have you approach them as a speaker.
Aside from that, I think consistency over time is your best friend. These have worked for me over the years, because I had a message to get out. Now, I have to turn that message into more of a therapy or coaching type business. I may seek a therapy degree. But before I do that, I want to see how it works to get clients on a long term basis. This is new for me, and I am clueless.
It is fun to speak to a crowd, but I have found that it is also rewarding for me to speak one-on-one to women and couples who need my services.
Hi Deborah- It’s so true, it is SO much more effective to reach out to an already-gathered group of people. If you have a strong, consistent message, you can build that audience for yourself, making it much easier to gain clients and a living. You need a few things: 1) the strong message and a strategy to get it in front of new people 2) regular communication with people who are interested, who have opted-in to receive your messages and 3) a strong offer and a clear sales process based in heart and integrity.
If you have those in place effectively, you will gain clients. Easier said than done, I know, and it represents a certain amount of work, but it is effective.
Mark-
I’m pretty burdened up right now, so this will be short, and may be based on incorrect assumptions.
It seems to me that model that you work from, and this is so successful for so many of your clients (and others), is for people who want to offer an ongoing stream of services–consulting, massage, interior design, whatever. For someone in that situation, your description is spot-on, because your (Mark’s) clients’ customers needs are ongoing and changing.
In a sense, the goal is to become a trusted advisor to the customers, which is accomplished by building a relationship with them over time, and offering a variety of products/services which fit the changing nature of the customers’ needs as their needs and relationship with your client develop over time.
That’s not what I’m doing. I may need to develop some relationship with potential customers to get them to do my workshop, but my workshop is the only thing I sell. I offer a little bit of follow-up, but I encourage folks not to buy it unless they really need it. Few do.
The best metaphor I can think of is that what many folks in comparable businesses are doing is selling taxi rides–“Oh, you need to get to A? I can get you to A. $7.” “Oh, you need to get to B at 3 am? I can get you to B at 3 am–$15.”
In contrast, I’m selling cars. “Here. This will get you to all the places you say you want to go for the next 2 years. $500. You say that’s a lot? Well, it’s not cheap. But it’s a lot less than all those taxi rides. Cheaper, too.”
I know the metaphor breaks down (maintenance, capital cost, etc.). And I hope the parallel is clear. It seems to me that most of your clients, Mark, are selling a series of services or a relationship, to a given customer of theirs. I’m selling a single service.
Is that helpful? Please don’t hesitate with any questions.
Doug
Hey Doug- that is helpful. Maybe you could send me an email- I’d love to have more details about the workshops, the people buying them, and how you market them- Between you and Chris I want to do a follow-up post with case studies of these alternatives.
This definitely lands for me, Mark.
I love teaching live workshops. Especially since what I do involves sound. There’s so much you can do at a workshop that’s a little tricksier to translate online.
But the strain. Oy. On me. On them. On everybody.
And, like you said, at some point I realized what a huge thing it was to show up at an live shindig. Huge for all of us.
I also thought about all the expenses involved for my people – airfare, hotel, food.
And I realized that, for that kind of scratch, I could provide my peeps with something off-the-charts fabulous without requiring them to hop on a plane and sit in the same room with me.
Is it different? Sure. But it also opens up some other awesome possibilities I’d never really thought of when I was just focused on in-person stuff.
And it means that people who could never come to a live event can plug in and show up. And that rocks.
I still plan to do live gigs. One or two a year, max. But I’m really excited about the other options that have shaken out when I shifted my focus from live stuff to other stuff.
Thanks for the smarts, as always. Totally grateful.
Always glad to see you here, brother. And always glad to be of service.
I agree with your comment – “take some time to grieve.” We often don’t realize that with any change we give something up and consequently we often jump over our emotions.
I will often focus on the excitement of the next thing and not acknowledge the time and energy I put in the previous endeavor. In some way what I didn’t grieve and release will limit me in the future.
I now attempt to fully experience the lost so I can fully be present to the joy.
I love this list – how comprehensive! & enlightening to see them mapped out in this hierarchy. Thank you.
I particularly noticed how the high commitment end doesn’t necessarily correlate with payment. When I ran a free teleclass recently, 10% of the sign-ups showed up live, with the other 90% choosing to download the recording. I had understood that merely as “It’s more convenient for them that way” but now I have that added level of insight: “It’s less commitment on their part that way”.
I’m planning for a live event in April and I love the reminder that by having these be few and far between, that increases the specialness of them. It makes me more excited too in the lead-up.
Thanks, as ever,
Corrina
Mark, this post is so helpful to me as I plan my new teaching business. I’ve given a lot of highly successful workshops in different fields, but in spite of extremely happy attendees and publicity, have run into the marketing problems you describe. I think the model you talk about, with a few special live events but the main teaching venue being teleclasses/webinars and individual coaching, will work for me.
What I’m thinking about now is how to translate the strengths that have made me an exciting workshop presenter into teaching in these other ways. Encouraging fun presence, ability to engage people with me and each other, hands-on activities, reading the energy level in the group. How can these qualities show up on the phone?
Do you have any input about this?
Thanks so much!
Do Mi
Do Mi – I’m leading my first group tele-programme at the moment & am finding those same strengths show up naturally, once you become confident with the technology so you can forget about it, relax and enjoy being with your group.
I started off by offering a free one-hour class to my list (was SO scared!) which got me used to the logistics & the different vibe and now just half a dozen classes later, it feels a very natural place to be.
So jump in there! 🙂
Hi Do Mi- Corrina has the right of it. I’ve found that if I tap into my heart, that I can sense the energy of the group- it’s still there. The main thing is to not try to replicate the experience of a live event, because you can’t. It’s a unique and precious gift when we gather together in person, and technology will never replace it. However, many of the same strengths are naturally available. One great thing is that no one will think you’re strange if you teach with your eyes closed part of the time, while you’re connecting with your heart. 🙂
I also recommend using really good technology. We use Maestro Conference (affiliate link). They have such an amazing interface that allow you to see people’s names, to call on them, to take polls, to create break-out groups, to “walk the room”- moving between break-out groups, and more. Pretty incredible technology.
Good luck and have fun!
Hi DO MI,
Every one of those strengths is translatable to online. Reading the energy of the group can be done at several levels. As a shaman, I scan the vibe and connect. But I’ve seen many teachers/coaches start the webinar with conversation by asking people questions that they can use a chat to answer. Where from? What is your main goal? As people answer, you get a good reading. Also, if you can hear their voice, then you got an instant reading. It may be that you are visual and kinetic so you are used to getting the clues that way. But trust your ears. We are all vibration. I use playsheets for fun and engagement. I do them in Powerpoint and save them to PDF and people can download them. When I put templates, I can actually FEEL people filling out the templates, it’s so powerful. Also, there are some teleconference rooms (Maestro comes to mind, though they are in the mid-price range) that allow you to break the attendants into sub-groups to discuss some topic and then reconvene. I hope this helps. Good luck.
Corinna and Mark, thanks so much for the encouragement! I guess it’s just as much about trust as the first time I stood up in front of a room (haven’t sat down yet!).
Mark, I was going to ask you what technology you’re using–the recording I listened to was so crystal clear. I’ll check it out.
I’ll let you know how it goes!
Hi Do Mi- glad it was helpful- and don’t confused the technologies. My voice is so crystal clear because I’ve invested in some high quality audio gear in my office. Their conference recordings sound good, but pretty much like all the normal conference recordings you might have heard, unlike what I do.
Aha, that’s good to know. I have to research audio technology–I’ve never had anything good so far. If you have any tips, I’d love to hear them.
Thanks, Mark!
Maybe I’ll do a short post on my audio equipment in case people are interested.
Oooh, yes, Mark. That would be lovely. This is what I’m dealing with now: I’ve been doing a series of telconferences that I then package into play sets, audio series, etc. I’ve been using the automatic recording from the teleconference service. But already two of them gave me grief. One was less than optimal quality and the other was so bad that I have to do it again, though of course, now the attendant’s questions will be lost, etc. I have a great mkike (Samsom Co1U) that picks up unidirectionally, so it muffles a lot of ambient noise. Crappy earphones, though. I’ve been looking around to see how I can do a simultaneous backup recording of good quality, but so far no luck. It would mean using the same mike in two different softwares (that’s what my techie said.) So any ideas, software, equipment or tricks is highly appreciated. Thanks for everything you put out there and for being you, with such Sacred Heart! Blessings.
Oh, please! That would be exactly what I need right now!
Dear Mark,
This article greatly hit the nail on the head for me. You’ve given me much to think about.
I appreciate how you aligned different offerings with commitment levels – this made so much sense to me. It helped me separate from some of the judgment I’ve carried in my head about my lack of sales, which then leads to discouragement and questioning my path.
As for audio equipment, I love my yeti microphone. Great sound quality.
I also second Maestro conference. In the past, I greatly disliked leading teleconferences because I was concerned the heart wasn’t there. Not to mention problems with sound quality and other snafus. Then I would feel discouraged because I wasn’t offering what I had promised, customers were frustrated, and I wanted to pull the plug on teleclasses altogether!
I love the options of Maestro – easing the technology challenges has freed me to focus on heart centered teaching, as many of you have shared here. I actually like leading teleclasses now…who knew?
And I was also terrified the first time I taught by phone. I find it soothing to know we all have many of the same feelings. We’re all in this together.
In gratitude and love, Karly
Hi Karly- I’m glad you’ve had such a great experience teaching on the phone- it is a fantastic venue. And I’m also glad that the distinction of different levels of commitment really made sense to you- I’ve found it so helpful myself.
Thanks for a very insightful article on a topic I don’t hear discussed very often. I “grew up” in a coaching industry that focuses mostly on bootcamps so at first I was trying to model after them. It didn’t take long for my intuition to tell me to focus on private clients instead, and now on creating video products and a Facebook coaching group where everyone is committed but doesn’t need to assemble at the same geographical place and time. The overall result is that I’m now doing better business-wise than almost anyone else in my original industry, except for the big companies that have lots of employees and do tons of paid advertising. I like my simple and streamlined (and profitable) business model very much. Thanks for sharing 🙂
I wonder if this is different if what I’m doing is offering individuals from my circle of influence to host a workshop for their group, whether it be friends, colleagues, people that they organize events with, etc. And the workshop fills at 10 people and runs at 5 people. So I’m not marketing to the same people over and over again. I’m marketing to one group (i.e. my friend Brooke’s church) for the workshop that will happen there, and then marketing to another group (i.e. to my friends P & B’s circle of friends and contacts) for a workshop that they’re hosting, and so on with other contacts who are excited about getting what I offer to their communities. Do you have thoughts about this? I think that I’d like to have individual coaching also in my business, but I have been thinking about using the workshops as the core of the business.
Hi Sofia- as long as you have an ever-expanding supply of groups eager to host your workshops, to organize them and help you market them, then sure, that’s fine. Just seems like a lot of effort. But if it works, it works.
Very interesting approach to workshops that after analyzing your point of view in detail I must agree you are completely right, so much effort is involved and sometimes it is not worth it.
Thank you SO much for this article! I’ve been hosting live workshops for the last 8 years, and like so many of the commenters here, it has been frustrating and at times not worth the trouble. I’m going to put more focus into getting private clients.
Alyssa- I’m SO glad it was helpful for you. It’s so painful to watch people struggle with this dynamic, unknowingly. I bet you can rock the house with the best of them- I trust this will help you have a successful, sustainable business so you can keep holding workshops at a workable pace.
Hi Mark, I LOVE this article though I see it was written a good few years ago now. I just wanted to say that I am really struggling as what I love to do most in the whole world is PRESENT! I have a gift for it and feel so alive when I’m speaking. However I strongly dislike arranging events and find it all so stressful and intimidating. I get really emotional about whether people will show up or not and take it really personally. I recently moved from a big city to a very small town and am wandering how to take my work to parents forward on a large scale if it is not in an event based format. I can’t imagine ‘teaching’ online as I simply thrive on audience participation and connection but maybe I need to learn more about how to do this (it feels totally alien to me!). But now I live in a small town my numbers are going to be so limited. Any thoughts about how to capitalise on my love of teaching and presenting if it won’t end up being at live events? Many thanks for all your wonderful work and inspiration – we are all so blessed by your guidance xx
Hi Ginny- Thank you for your kind words and I have so much empathy for you with this- it’s definitely a conundrum. There are two ways:
1) ongoing groups. Instead of trying to do big presentations from scratch, if you enroll people in a live, in-person group that lasts for a few months, or even a year, then you can have that kind of interaction without the stress of trying to enroll live events every time.
2) Get comfortable with video techology. Zoom and other platforms have made huge strides forward in how interactive and easy to use they are.
Good luck!
If you like, you may want to check out our Community for support, lots of other people are exploring these kinds of options.
The Heart of Business Community.
I am blown away here by these comments. I pull in 10G a month doing mine and that is without much effort. Honestly, I am shocked by the comments here. Well I must be doing something right and very diff than the rest. I would have no idea what that is tho.