Someone recently asked, “Negative people make me sad. You really have nothing better to do with your time? Many seem stuck almost intentionally as a way of not showing up. I’m really interested in helping them step into a better place. But it takes action on their part. I guess that’s the real question. How do you take action out of a negative space?”
When you do heart-centered or transformational work of any kind, you sometimes encounter folks who some people have called “energy vampires” or others have said are “stuck in glass-empty negativity loops.”
Readers have told me that dealing with these people leaves them depleted and disheartened. The interactions can take up a lot of time, and aren’t always very productive.
I want to say for the record, I don’t believe anyone is ever an “energy vampire.” Let’s not tell that story about anyone. Instead, let’s look at what’s going on, and how to move through it with both efficiency and an open heart.
Recently I spent a couple of days being a little short in conversations with my wife, and reacting to any comment she made with my own worst-case scenario. The doom loop. It stopped when, exasperated, she told me, “You’re not very much fun to be around.”
Thankfully we both have enough awareness of patterns that I could take a look at myself. I realized I was frustrated and sad about something in our lives. Later, after the kids went to bed, I spent a good ten or fifteen minutes telling her about it. She listened with empathy, and then it passed. We felt connected, and I felt happier.
The first thing to know is that any loss causes grief. I was sad because I felt I was losing something. And grief, when not expressed and received, is like a record skipping. In my case I was in the exact negativity loop described above. My personality is not one to tell long stories, but it can be just as wearing as the “long story” pattern.
Many folks who tell long negative stories are caught in a cycle of grief, but haven’t actually had a chance to grieve. All I needed was that fifteen minutes with my wife as witness to grieve and it was over.
Grief is not just about death, it can be related to any significant loss. Relationships that don’t work out, lost jobs, financial disasters all result in lost dreams. And because our culture has had a taboo on grief for centuries most of us have many ungrieved losses stored up.
Without witnessing and acceptance, grief cannot move. It just can’t. Instead it stays stuck inside, where it runs an endless loop. When you have many, many of those ten to fifteen minute griefs, not to mention bigger ones, stuck in a loop inside, the feelings can be overwhelming, both to the person and to anyone listening.
That overwhelming discomfort then starts this doom loop of disconnection. The person stuck in the loop starts to tell a negative story or make negative comments. The person listening probably has a resonant discomfort and, unconsciously perhaps, does something to try to not feel the discomfort of that grief.
Three of the ways people avoid the discomfort are by becoming distant in the conversation and just enduring the story, suddenly changing the conversation and leaving, or by trying to get the other person to feel better through offering advice.
As you can imagine, none of these work. Let me offer you an alternative which will either help to release the grief, or, if the grief is too much to heal in a short interaction, and healing the grief may not be your role, it will give you a graceful way to exit without causing ill will.
Self Empathy First
If you notice yourself feeling uncomfortable or upset in reaction to what they are saying, tune into your own feelings. It’s okay to tune out what they are saying for a few moments while you get your internal bearings.
Are you sad? Angry? Frustrated? Grieving, too? Whatever the feeling, let yourself have space to feel that way. You don’t have to change that feeling, just make room for it.
Connect to your heart and ask in your heart, “Is love available even here?”
If they notice you tuned out (which is highly unlikely since they are caught in their own experience), just say, truthfully, “Sorry! What you were telling me reminded me of something similar that happened to me.”
Next, Truly Listen
Your quality of listening makes a huge difference to the speaker. If you are not listening to them, but instead listening for an opening so you can say something, or listening for a pause so you can escape, they can feel that.
It will probably trigger desperation in them, which keeps them talking, hoping that what they are saying can land somewhere.
Instead, really listen to what they are saying. Notice how what they are saying is affecting them. Bring your presence to the listening.
Finally, “Interrupt to Connect”
Despite your best intentions to remain present, you might lose attention. Your mind might wander, you might get bored, impatient. It’s at this point you can interrupt.
Yes, I did say “interrupt.” Many of us have been taught, at least I was, that it’s rude to interrupt. Unfortunately, some people don’t pause in their talking, or link from one topic to the next without creating any kind of space or checking in with how you’re doing.
Intention is everything here. Create an intention to connect with their heart, and then interrupt with honesty and a request.
“Let me break in here. What you’re telling me is important and yet I was losing attention–it’s a big story you told me and I realized I was affected by something you said earlier and kept thinking about it… so I lost the thread of what came after. Can I let you know what I heard and see if it’s what you meant?”
or…
“Let me break in here. What you’re telling me is important, and I realized I couldn’t stop thinking about the time, so I lost the thread of what you were saying. I forgot to tell you that I only have another ten minutes. Can I tell you what I heard you say, and then I’d love to know what the next step is here before I have to go.”
When this kind of interruption is done with compassion and kindness, it doesn’t feel rude. It feels like caring because it is. The combination of honesty and compassion, with a clear request for then next step and to wrap things up moves the conversation along in a way that everyone can appreciate.
Don’t get trapped into the heart-wrenching scenario of judging someone else. Just notice how you’re feeling and what your own needs are. If you bring real presence to the time you do spend listening, and interrupt with an intention to connect if you need to, you can find resolution and move on with your day.
How about you? How do you handle these kinds of situations? Have you ever interrupted someone in a graceful way? Please share what you get in the comments.
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30 Responses
Dear Mark,
Thank you for your wisdom and writing this blog. This blog was a good reminder to remind me to truly listen and be present with others and also look at my own internal process. I believe what you have suggested is important if presented with the situation you described above, however, I believe it is also vital to discern whether you decide to engage with these individuals on an ongoing basis. Many heart-centered business’s “collect” or “attract” these types of clients because they are struggling to make their business viable and are fearful to turn away paying clients or they are just too nice and want to try to help everyone. In my experience, these situations are the ones that lead to burnout. Having said that I have worked with others in the past have become very successful and earned their income through their ability to give love, compassion and attention when working with or caring for these type of clients i.e. negative, demanding/ “energy vampires”/ the 5%.
I feel one of the most important things someone once told me was “5% of your clients/patients will take up 95% of your time”. Once I became aware of this I felt I had two choices surrender/accept that some of people I work with are going to be part of the 5% or two surrender and accept that I may not be the best match for them and search for an appropriate person to help them. In my business these days I try to pay attention to my intuition/gut feeling/heart and if after doing that I feel they are part of the 5% then I almost always choose the second option I mentioned. This means I actually turn away a good proportion of new referrals but I find that these decisions allow me to do a much better job in helping the other 95% of my clients, make what I do much more enjoyable and helps me avoid burnout long-term. Mark, I would love to hear your comments and how you work with the above situation on a more long-term basis.
Love
Rob
Rob- Beautiful- and a very important point! You took the article and went to the next step, and that’s critical. Not everyone is a perfect match, and with someone else the issue may not exist at all! I’m so glad you brought this up. Anyone else make a similar choice to Rob?
Yes, but what do you do with family and close friends – you cannot just walk away on them – you love them and truly want them to feel better. Not because of you (although this is important too) but because this negative thinking brings them sickness.
I do listen. With empathy. That’s how I end up listening to all kinds of sad stories even from complete strangers.
It’s a great question, Helen. No, you can’t just walk away from family and loved ones. I would suggest going more deeply into Nonviolent Communication, where I got “interrupt to connect.” If there is an imbalance in your familial relationships, it will require some persistence in righting that, whatever that looks like, and it’s worth it! It could be that they eventually come around, and it could be that they don’t, and you find strategies to care for yourself without abandoning the relationship, yet changing your patterns within it.
I really love how you lay all of this out Mark. It’s clear and compassionate. Exactly what people need.
I do think, though, that there is a place for walking away – in the short term. Thich Nhat Hanh’s Buddhist communities have a practice for dealing with interpersonal conflicts and challenges that includes time for “taking space.” It could be as short as 5 minutes to meditate and recenter, or as long as a week (under their practice) to reflect, calm down, meditate, and recenter. This practice of taking space and returning refreshed to someone has helped me engage compassionately many times.
Nathan- I think you are absolutely dead on. Taking space is a critical piece, especially if you aren’t clear or are triggered. Interrupting to connect has been a great way for me to get to that place of asking for space before continuing the conversation.
That was basically the same question that I had. I have those people too.
Hi Mark
I really appreciate you pointing out the importance of quality of listening, it’s something I have become aware of over the past couple of years and encouraging my clients to do. It’s amazing when I have done exercises to become aware of how much we are really listening to others, how much time we are actually listening to our own internal conversations and as you say, waiting for a space to give our point of view.
Your tips on interrupting with love and compassion are great for me right now, that’s where I need to practise for sure! I do find because of my giving nature and not wanting to break the flow, I tend to let a person talk for a very long time. Thank you for sharing your examples on just how to interrupt in a way that feels in integrity and without losing the connection.
Sheela- you are so welcome. It was a revelation to me when I learned I could interrupt with the intention to connect- it changed everything, and it works amazingly well. Enjoy!
You’ve articulated a fact that resonates so strongly with me – the amount of grieving in this world is huge and our society doen’t provide healthy outlets for that grief.
I know my listening skills can always use a refresh so I really appreciate the tools and language you’ve shared with this post.
Yet another message received when it was needed.
Ah, Paul… I know, the grief is huge in this world, isn’t it? So painful… So glad this was helpful!
Thank you for this wisdom of seeing both sides in these sensitive sharings. YOu helped me understand better what can be going on for the listener and how to make that listening more effective and helpful for the person sharing.
Thank you, Aditi. So glad it landed.
Hey Mark, this is a good one, and is landing powerfully in me. About my own grief yet to be expressed and released, and about the grief I encounter in my clients.
I love the suggestion of intentional interruption, of interrupting to connect.
It’s a lovely opening. Feels much more spacious and loving than my training and habit of not interrupting.
Thanks so much!
Love and light,
Sue
Hey Mark,
Did you write that article just for ME? It felt like it. I have been amazed at the twists unexpressed grief can make in my wellbeing. The power of presence with what is always brings relief, connection and then a flow.
Listening to clients on a deeper level, looking for the emotion that is unexpressed, usually helps bring my client to the point they are yearning to get to. But, I have to admit – sometimes I have to listen for a long time before I can really hear them.
I love the interruption with intention reminder. Thanks!
Molly, I did. 🙂 Unexpressed grief is so huge, and the listening can take time. I think it’s really key to point out that the time it takes is the time it takes us as the listening to get present, not the time it takes the talker to get to the point.
So glad, Sue, and yes that interrupting to connect can be a life-changer for sure!
Mmmmm nice one Mark – really hit the spot.
Oh and before I forget and get all distracted – lovely interview with Jenn Lee for Right Brainers in Business last night (well it was evening here in London!)
So back to your post – I hugely appreciate what you wrote here about Empathy and Listening before that point of Interruption to Connect. I think it can be so easy to dismiss people as “energy vampires” etc.- perhaps they trigger some discomfort in us – something we haven’t yet learnt to be with.
And sometimes I’m really struck by how people who claim to be spiritually “evolved” – I think that’s the term – can find it so challenging to be around anyone who challenges or disagrees with them in any way.
I’m not waving a flag for negativity in a sense of saying let’s all be negative and grumpy and ungracious and ungrateful. I am agreeing that when somebody does fall into the down zone for a while, empathise and connect with your own buried memories of loss and grief and humiliation and hurt. Be vulnerable and allow them to be vulnerable rather than rushing immediately to kick their victim butt.
I must admit, I responded to your post in ‘client’ mode rather than ‘coach’ mode. And so in the first paragraphs I felt so good to feel witnessed and heard and ‘allowed’.
I’ve noticed a theme brewing in the past week or so with lots of people writing about listening and empathy and being there with someone and supporting them and accepting them when something is challenging them, when something sucks.
None of these people are about holding someone in a victim space. And all of them a extolling the virtues of empathy. So cool. So warm. So delicious. Mmmmm
Yay, Annie- so glad it was nourishing, and it sounds like you’ve been surrounded by that nourishment. Very beautiful. And thanks for your kind words about the call Jennifer and I did- I love hanging out with her- she rocks!
Mark,
Thank you for this compelling article. I really like how you talk about self-empathy first. So often, we forget to focus on what’s really happening inside ourselves before we respond. This resonates well with my mindfulness practice, but I also loved seeing the idea in print!
I also really appreciated the idea of interrupting to connect; I’d never thought of it like that, and though I know that introverts hate to interrupt or be interrupted and extroverts love to interrupt to connect (something I hear about all the time in my private practice), I think if I were to frame interruption as connection to an introvert, it might be different.
I also love the idea of being present. I’m a licensed psychologist in private practice in Portland, Oregon. And, when I ask clients what they value most in session, I often hear it’s that I’m present, they know that I care, and that I’m real with them.
And, I agree with Rob. Five percent of clients may take up the most time, but when you form a true connection with them, it doesn’t feel like a demand; I really enjoy connecting with the people I see. Of course, there are days when I feel drained, but this has to do with extraneous issues, like life! 🙂
What I do want to say is that there are people who are what I would call, energy vampires, and they are NOT my 5%. I’ve seen a couple in inpatient units — Sociopaths — and have seen some — Narcissists — in sessions. Narcissists do not respond willingly or kindly to interruption and often have difficulty with empathy. They often see softness/receptivity/empathy as weakness or “nice” (not good) which they have trouble allowing in. They aren’t evil (like a Sociopath), but they can be confusing, provocative, and draining. This fits with what I think of with an energy vampire: someone who takes without giving and drains you of vitality and happiness while in their presence.
Anyway, thank you for your thought-provoking article. I appreciate it!
Heather
Hi Heather- Thank you so much for your kind words- and also for pointing out that there are a very small number of people that need something extra- who are mentally disturbed in a way that ordinary empathy won’t touch. In which case, hopefully, someone can interrupt to connect and exit, if not tremendously gracefully, at least effectively.
Mark,
A great way to say it! Yes, some people need extra care in a way that empathy won’t touch. So true. And, yes, exiting gracefully is indeed the way to do it — so you’re staying true to your heart (being kind to yourself and others) and protective of yourself as well.
Mark, even though I don’t do transformational work, I just want to say this was one of my favorite articles – not least because of what you say regarding energy vampires: “Let’s not tell that story about anyone.” That really expresses how I feel about that label. I’m sure I’ve drained *someone’s* energy at *sometime*. Your article addresses the pain underneath with such compassion and gives me an alternative for when I feel drained by someone.
So glad that helped you, Marki! And yes, it applies to us all no matter what we do.
Very few people truly know how to listen, it is a skill. Having the ability to place yourself in another’s place, feel what they are feeling, and then offer the proper emotional support isn’t always easy.
Thanks Mark for the insight. I find that taking in too much negative without knowing how to set proper boundaires can be overwhelming. I just had a friend post the following message on Facebook.; he’s a sensitive creative soul and I found his post interesting:
“Kinda thinking about getting off Facebook (probably a huge relief to some). It seems to be the modern substitute for “road rage”. I know some (and yes, I have been guilty of this) feel no restraint in their vehicle when expressing their anger at others over driving habits. FB seems to provide a similar environment where it is ok to unleash ones feelings on others without regard to how it might negatively impact someone (again, guilty).”
Perhaps my friend can simply unfriend the ones causing him grief? I have several friends that I unfriended or removed their posts on my Facebook newsfeed because they were just spewing out rage that I found unacceptable. I did not notify these friends, I simply set my own boundaries.
What are you thoughts?
Janet- So interesting, and it’s true about making clear choices about who your friends are. If they are real friends, I would probably talk to them first about how I’m affected by their communications. And if they aren’t true friends, but people who are randomly connected through FB, I would be tempted to unfriend them as you did.
Hi Mark!Negative clients brings negative success.In order not to be negative,we need to get rid of them.At times,they are not helpful.
What a clear, step-by-step way to handle difficult situations with grace! Thank you, for once again for simplifying the complicated.
I LOVE clients who are really negative, because the payoff is huge! Once one starts to listen, they respond. Because it is such a novel experience for them to be listened to, they can show gratitude as large as the pain they once experienced.
The loving interruption and insisting on self care is necessary. I have a client who demands that I be completely honest! When I drift off, she notices! When I am frustrated with her loops, she notices! It’s better that I be up front with all that, rather than be like everyone else who tunes her out.
Donna- it’s so true- as large as the pain is, the gratitude and celebration can be equally huge- what a beautiful observation.